A1000 (Customer) asked a question.
Atmos 7.1.4 mix & Stereo downmix sound great, Binaural downmix sounds washed out with bass.
Posted this on Reddit too, wondering if I can get more eyes here.
Hi, I'm mixing a electronic music track with a lot of bass with plans to release ADM on tidal/apple music. Mostly working with Ableton and the Dolby Atmos Renderer.
I've got my 7.1.4 mix dialed in, it sounds really good. I've been reading about the LFE channel, and understand that it's just an extra channel for sub-frequency effect. So while mixing, I turn off the LFE, and make sure the kick and bass sound good. I then turn on the LFE for the "effect" and it sounds fantastic in the 7.1.4 room.
When I fold down the export to 2.0 stereo, it also sounds really good on headphones and a 2.0 studio with a sub, which is the desired effect.
But when I listen to the binaural over headphones its washed out with bass and the LFE channel is kicking up the limiter. It sounds like shit. Way too much bass.
Experts of the trade, what do you think? Is the sub in my studio too low? LFE peaks around -12dB on this track.
A few metrics:
LFE peaks around -12dB on this track
I have my sub HPF at 38hz and LPF at 120hz
I have my kick HPF at 45hz
On LFE I'm using a subharmonic plugin.
When I solo LFE, it sounds good in the room.
Binuaral comes in at about -13dB lkfs integrated
Atmos mix comes in at exactly -18dB lkfs integrated
Downmix and trim set to 0dB for surround and height.
I've cut the LFE channel down 10dB and the bin still sounds washed out, though not as much. And the atmos mix doesn't have the power that I wanted.
Does Apple/Tidal even use the Binuaral mix?
I've been working in atmos for about 1.5 years, and this is my first release. I'm constantly second guessing the mixes. I know a lot of you folks are doing a separate stereo and atmos mix, but I'm trying to kill all birds with one mix and render. Is that unreasonable? Also, I can't afford to pay for a professional to mix this.
Thanks for reading, I hope we can have a good discussion to help me and other future atmos users.
Hi, I'm mixing a electronic music track with a lot of bass with plans to release ADM on tidal/apple music. Mostly working with Ableton and the Dolby Atmos Renderer.
I've got my 7.1.4 mix dialed in, it sounds really good. I've been reading about the LFE channel, and understand that it's just an extra channel for sub-frequency effect. So while mixing, I turn off the LFE, and make sure the kick and bass sound good. I then turn on the LFE for the "effect" and it sounds fantastic in the 7.1.4 room.
When I fold down the export to 2.0 stereo, it also sounds really good on headphones and a 2.0 studio with a sub, which is the desired effect.
But when I listen to the binaural over headphones its washed out with bass and the LFE channel is kicking up the limiter. It sounds like shit. Way too much bass.
Experts of the trade, what do you think? Is the sub in my studio too low? LFE peaks around -12dB on this track.
A few metrics:
LFE peaks around -12dB on this track
I have my sub HPF at 38hz and LPF at 120hz
I have my kick HPF at 45hz
On LFE I'm using a subharmonic plugin.
When I solo LFE, it sounds good in the room.
Binuaral comes in at about -13dB lkfs integrated
Atmos mix comes in at exactly -18dB lkfs integrated
Downmix and trim set to 0dB for surround and height.
I've cut the LFE channel down 10dB and the bin still sounds washed out, though not as much. And the atmos mix doesn't have the power that I wanted.
Does Apple/Tidal even use the Binuaral mix?
I've been working in atmos for about 1.5 years, and this is my first release. I'm constantly second guessing the mixes. I know a lot of you folks are doing a separate stereo and atmos mix, but I'm trying to kill all birds with one mix and render. Is that unreasonable? Also, I can't afford to pay for a professional to mix this.
Thanks for reading, I hope we can have a good discussion to help me and other future atmos users.
A few quick points and I hope some others join in this discussion.
The LFE is discarded in 2.0 stereo mixes but it included in the Binaural Render.
Tidal uses AC4-IMS as the distribution codec which does use the Binaural mix. Apple Spatial Audio is their own Binaural Renderer but uses the DDPlus JOC codec to render to 7.1.4 ahead of Spatial Audio so the LFE is used.
Object audio is full range and relies on bass management in the monitoring system to route low frequencies to the sub.
As you note room the calibration of the subwoofer and room tuning could be playing a large factor here. Some of this is covered in this document: https://professionalsupport.dolby.com/s/article/Dolby-Atmos-Music-Studio-Best-Practices
Beyond that. The use of a subharmonic generator could require a balancing act if it is hitting the limiter.
Adam
Yes, for android phones etc.
> I'm trying to kill all birds with one mix and render. Is that unreasonable?
Possible.
Adam already covered a lot. Let's go over some LFE basics incase.
1. The LFE is gained 10 dBbefore it reaches the sub in a compliant playback chain.
2. LFE reproduction is optional.
3. The binaural render includes some LFE gain as per 1.
And therefore according to your symptoms, maybe your subwoofer is set too low &/ you put too much bass in the LFE. Maybe both. As "The Notorious BIG" once said, "mo LFE mo problems"
Thanks for listening.